Hop!2D : a simple yet not-all-that-easy 2D platformer with 2 control keys !: Page 5

Hop!2D : a simple yet not-all-that-easy 2D platformer with 2 control keys !

Sosasees

Asthalis yes, i completed the tutorial and 1 world before writing this comment

Asthalis

Sosasees
Great ! Do you remember which level you reached or can you describe it ? What are your main feelings (best and worst elements of the game) ?

Sosasees

Asthalis the last level i could complete so far was the vertical level after 'easy money' i believe it was called.
this game is very challenging

my main feelings so far are
➕ very fun game
➕ great aesthetic
➖ sometimes unfair collision (i can lose a life by barely touching a spike). you can make the spike collision a bit smaller so that the player won't lose a life prematurely. there is very good video about forgiveness mechanics

Asthalis

Sosasees
Thanks first for your inspiring feedback and very interesting video link (I heard and read a lot about Coyote time but there was much more explained and detailed in it).

I have just had another look at collision boxes I set for this kind of hazards and I think you're right, they could be a little smaller to make the game more forgiving. I'll take your advice if you think it may be a motive of frustration (especially beginners or no platformer-addicts), that's clearly not the goal. One thing I won't change, though, is the way Hop moves because all levels were built right from his jumping and rushing capacities and it took me a while to get a right "compatibility" between Hop and worlds he evolves in.

Consider your suggestion validated for upcoming beta 21 version. The box reduction won't be huge but that's a point I can not neglect. May I ask you if you want your name added to the "thanks" list (ABOUT menu of the game ?).

Sosasees

Sosasees the last level i could complete so far was the vertical level after 'easy money' i believe it was called.

this level is Central Well. i was stuck there before.
i played again (Beta 20) — now the Spike collision feels fair, so i got up to Starcross's Lair and i feel like i can go further just playing again.

GNU

I reached my previous pb at 48 but couldn't go any further yet. The levels are very long and non-linear, and a few extra lives wouldn't hurt.
Also I have a request against this enemy in the picture below. It shouldn't be here imo, you have to take a blind jump from the floor below and there is no way to avoid it when it's there, depending on your pace.

Also this obstacle (2 destructible tiles under a spike): I don't hate it, but I think it doesn't fit in the general design of the level, which is all about path finding and big jumps.

Asthalis

GNU
Hello again,

Thanks for your detailed feedback and helpful screenshots. To be fair, I am still not completely satisfied with the 5th world and wondered if the difficulty level was not too high compared to previous and next worlds. Among hazards that may be a bit "too much", I did think of the mine under which Hop must rush in level 48. I think I will keep this trick for later levels and replace it by something easier.

About the enemy you show in level 46, I think I won't get rid of it but think about a way to avoid it more easily when using the air flow to reach its platform. I think a good solution would be to reduce the height of the air column, so that Hop can not directly collide with it when going up in the first place. Here again, I'll experiment different things. One more item in the "to do list" of beta 21 !

Sosasees

Asthalis One thing I won't change, though, is the way Hop moves because all levels were built right from his jumping and rushing capacities

yes, i also think that Hop!2D wouldn't be Hop!2D if Hop didn't move like this

GNU

Asthalis
There clearly is a difficulty spike in world 5. From 45 and on, levels are long and offer many tricky jumps, with a tight timer on top of that. Lots of trial and error. I finally reached 49 and figured out most of it, but it's another tough nut to crack. And I haven't even met the boss, so yeah, quite a punishing world early on, probably some adjustments needed.

Asthalis

GNU
OK, I will take care of it, I first needed at least one player to reach world 5 to confirm me this. Changes will be effective in upcoming beta 21 version, I have several areas in mind where difficulty could be brought down a little in this world. And as I answered Sosasees earlier, smaller enemy hitboxes will ease the player's task as well. The video link he gave me was really instructive.

Asthalis

I asked myself another question : would a training level (no enemies, no hazards, no time limit, just platforms) be useful for beginner players to get used to Hop's controls ? A description of Hop's basic actions is already available in HELP menu but would a dynamic training area be an interesting bonus ?
I'm interested in your point of vue.

Sosasees

Asthalis A description of Hop's basic actions is already available in HELP menu but would a dynamic training area be an interesting bonus ?

yes. if done really good, it could possibly be so good that it replaces the help menu.

Asthalis

Sosasees
Thanks for your tip ! I was a bit reluctant first because I thought help menu and training mode would be redundant. Switching to single dynamic training may be the right way for the player to learn while controlling Hop and not just reading static indications. Do you think it's redundant or it may be a way to gather more players keeping both possibilities ?

Whatever my final choice, I'll keep it for future versions because I'm bit busy right now with the very last part of the game (what you will see if you succeed in your quest !).

GNU

A training room to toy around with Hop could be a nice feature, even though that's more or less what world 1 is already.
I don't think there is an issue with the hitboxes either, on the contrary I think the game is very precise and responsive (nothing like the original game which had collision issues).
The overall difficulty of the game is good, up to world 5 where you went overboard imo. Some people may also have a hard time with boss 4.
In the end I think what will repel most new players, and where the real difficulty of the game lies, is the fact that you have a limited number of lives and that you lose your progress when you game-over. This old school aspect is very unusual nowadays, where hard games tend to give you infinite lives and raise the difficulty to the ceiling, on short segments and close together save points.
There is nothing wrong with the solution you went for, but it requires fine tuning (i.e. a lot of test play) to make it an enjoyable experience. Honestly, you did a great job balancing the game on your own so far.
Keep on the great work, can't wait to see what's next!

Asthalis

Thank you, GNU, you have already brought much to the game, and I know you know what an original arcade game is ! You're right when you say nowaday's video games are mainly about short games with lots of lives and restart from any level already unlocked. Seems likes people have absolutely no time for anything today ! Hop!2D would be really easy to adapt to cell phones (low resolution, very few controls) but the more I think about it, the more I wonder if people would be patient enough to play a whole world. One more reflexion to have, I guess...

Talking about training system, I'm not sure of anything right now. I'm quite happy with HELP menu (I tried to get the right balance between completeness and concision) but I understand some players need something more dynamic. I often said world 1 was already designed as a training world and I still believe it. I may add some indications to help the player but the main thing is about handling Hop's movements and jumps. Some complains I had were about depleting energy. It seems some players are not comfortable with it even in the first levels, they don't feel they're actually training with the threat of losing a life.

If I happen to design a "real" training level, I'd like to make it more interactive : for example, a door to next section of the level opens only if the player has completed the current goal (move left and right, accelerate, reach a platform, jump over an obstacle, etc.). And of course, nothing about energy, enemy or more advanced mechanisms, just the basics. I admit I had Portal in mind while building the game, I liked the idea of a tutorial included into the game itself.

One last thing about hitboxes : I have already modified most of them in the incoming BETA 21 version but the main goal was not to make the game much easier than it is. Just to make it less "touchy" in some tight situations where pixel-precision was not really needed. From what I have tested, changes are not huge but the feeling of a close call instead of a "game over" may be the one reason for some players to stick to the game. Nothing is changed for Hop, modifications are about everything else.

Asthalis

Sosasees
Obviously, you got used to Hop!2D's gameplay because hitbox sizes are still the same and will be reduced only in BETA 21 ! Anyway, glad to know you made your way to the 2nd boss. I suppose you beat it if world 3 now appears among your unlocked worlds. Teleporters and unlockable laser gates await you there, good luck !
I will add your name to next beta's testers list.

Asthalis

Another reflexion about making Hop!2D easier...

So far, when you meet a boss, you try to bring its energy down to zero to complete a world and unlock the next one. But if you lose a life against him, the boss has recovered all his energy when you restart the level.

I was wondering if I should keep only his remaining energy when restarting the level. That way, if you lose several lives in the battle but manage to hit him, the boss gets weeker and weeker and it gives the player a better chance to succeed and unlock another world.

Some players think it is too punishing to restart a whole world (10 levels) if they have a hard time with a boss.

What do you think about it ?

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