thinking about switching to Linux

siska

My Windows 10 laptop will need replacing later on this year, and I have been thinking about maybe switching to Linux (TUXEDO Computers).

My questions :
1) Would I need a dual boot for building my game for Windows ?
2) My current laptop is an Asus (Intel Core i7-4860HQ CPU @ 2.40GHz 2.39 GHz 16GB RAM) that I bought several years ago. How do Linux laptops compare to Windows laptops as far as price/specs are concerned ?
3) I wondered if anyone using Linux for gamedev would care to comment on their experience ?

Thanks !

duane

The only advantage to buying a laptop with linux preinstalled is that you're reasonably certain the hardware is compatible. The disadvantage is that you'll probably pay more for less power than if you'd just bought a mainstream laptop. Most laptops will run linux well enough these days, and the few that don't will usually be pointed out pretty quickly. However, I'd try a live distribution on your current hardware before investing any money in it. Older hardware is an advantage with linux, since people have had plenty of time to make drivers that deal with any quirks.

I've used linux exclusively for over two decades, and I wouldn't switch for money, but there are a lot of disadvantages compared to windows. Most linux users would like to paint you a rosy picture, but the truth is you'll probably spend a lot more time maintaining linux than you would windows. If you like that sort of thing (I do), than go for it. Otherwise, take as much time as you can stand comparing them and make the choice that's right for you.

cybereality

Linux has been great for me. I've been using it full time for 2 years, and I did dual boot for 3 years before that. It's very good. You can generally install Linux on any computer, but sometimes there are not hardware drivers for obscure devices and it won't work 100% (for example, non standard stuff like fingerprint readers). So if you are not familiar with it, it's probably better to get a laptop with Linux preinstalled. There are a few vendors that are good. Though if you do research, you can get a normal Windows laptop to work, you just have to look into it.

On Linux you can build for both Linux and Windows on Godot. Technically, you can also build for Mac, but it won't work because of Apple's stupid security (you need a Mac computer and a certificate). Honestly I would get a Windows 11 laptop, these will be easier to find if you want a decent GPU for gaming, and then do research to make sure it will work with Linux. I like Ubuntu a lot. You can dual boot, so give half the hard-drive to Ubuntu and then reboot and switch whenever you want. For development, I built a second Windows 11 machine that I use for testing. But I do all my work on Ubuntu.

I find Linux just works better than Windows. It is more stable, it doesn't slow down after time. Mostly all the software is free. Good security. Good community. It does take time to learn. As I said, I spent 3 years dual-booting before I felt comfortable switching completely. If you just want to switch, it will be hard, I would recommend dual-booting at first so you have some options. There is a good amount of software on Linux, but not everything. For example, Photoshop only works on Windows and Mac. Though there are alternatives (GIMP, Krita, etc.) they take time to learn. Now I am much faster in Linux, but as I stated, it took years. So you have to think of it like an investment.

If you want to buy a Windows laptop, I would recommend getting an all AMD laptop (AMD CPU and GPU) as they work better on Linux. Also you have to check things like the network adapter and make sure it is a standard one (Intel network cards are great). The drivers on Linux are much better these days, almost everything works, but not everything. Especially with some cheaper laptops, they may use some off-brand parts that don't work. Also too much fancy proprietary stuff can cause issues (like fingerprint readers, touch screens, etc.). So please look into it before you buy anything.

Wolfe

I took the plunge with Linux Mint Cinnamon about a year and a half ago. I threatened to do it for years, but I was perfectly happy with Windows 7. When I bought a new PC with Windows 10 I had no choice but to dual-boot. I no longer use W10 for anything but PC gaming and a small handful of things that don't work out in WINE.

For me, the toughest part of setting up the dual-boot was determining how to divide the hard drive. It depends on what you may want out of each OS (and if you have one of those HDD+SSD hybrid systems), so I advise thinking carefully about it. I opted to devote most of my drive to a spare partition in the Windows format where both OSes can find games, pictures, video captures, etc. etc.

Linux Mint with Cinnamon is user-friendly (in the true sense, not "user-friendly" as a frustratingly convoluted opaque thing that thwarts power users). I've converted a couple more computers for people and had no issues out of the gate. I've actually had fewer driver snags with Mint than with W10, and if you take the time to apply Timeshift correctly, you can revert a show-stopping error in minutes with a USB boot.

@duane is right about maintenance. I regard the experience as very similar to the good old days of Windows XP or Windows 98 SE. With user control comes user responsibility. The most I've had to manage is free space on the Linux partition, which has been filled twice -- once by old Linux kernels (fixed), and another by an aggregate of junk, including a ton of files the Godot editor pretended to delete but never did. 🤔 (I think the Godot team has fixed that.)

cybereality Technically, you can also build for Mac, but it won't work because of Apple's stupid security (you need a Mac computer and a certificate).

I've read this before, but I didn't need anything to export GDSim to MacOS and I confirmed that it works on a local Mac. I didn't export it from the Mac, I just downloaded it from Itch.

I can't explain, I just know it worked.

siska

Thanks, both !

I did use a 'converted' Windows laptop for a while, a couple of years ago ... so, I do have a little bit of an idea of the pros and cons. As for the software that I use : most of it runs on Linux as well.
My main reason for considering the switch now is my increasing dislike for how MS treats its users. To me, it feels like they're trying to get us back to MS Vista ... 🙂

@cybereality : just to make sure I understand : if you want to build a game for Windows, you don't actually need Windows on your machine? But do you need to run Windows in a VM ?

Pixophir

'nother Linuxer here.

Heard good things about Tuxedo, though they aren't cheap. But what is cheap these days ?
1.) If it must be, e.g. you insist on needing Windows on the same machine, then yes. If you can afford two computers, then have them dedicated Linux or Windows.
2.) Linux runs perfectly on older hardware. If you have a supernew laptop with shenanigans (keyboard lights, finger print readers, etc.) you want to use, I'd check if these are supported. And/or if life really depends on them :-) Linux runs on a whole lot more platforms and architectures than Windows. What's missing often times are drivers for shenanigans.
3.) Developing on Linux is a piece of cake :-) I think that GCC (and Clang) for instance is much faster implementing new architectures, processor generations and language features and are ludicrously much more stable than anything MS could ever bring forward. But that's probably not a criterion for Godot dev :-)

I second AMD as architecture. I run an 5800X and a Radeon 6700XT all with open source drivers, but I have to use the unstable branch of my Linux flavour (Debian) for that to work for me. Mind you, Linux unstable is more stable than a fully released Windows. Heard of BSODs in Windows 11, which is seen as accepted behaviour. Would cause an outrage on most Linuxes ... :-)

cybereality

You can build for all platforms on Godot on Linux (except Apple platforms, for security reasons). So, no, you don't need Windows. However, releasing a game and selling it on a platform you haven't tested is not a good plan. A VM won't work, because it's not a real machine (no access to the GPU). Which is why I suggested buying a Windows 11 laptop and dual-booting. You can set Linux to use most of that SSD. Maybe just leave like 128GB for Windows to use for testing.

Godot mostly works the same everywhere. But sometimes there are weird differences. Linux and Windows are pretty solid, but I found some weirdness on Mac when my code was correct. And, in theory, there could be differences on Linux to Windows that could cause bugs. It's rare, but if you plan to release a product it must be tested.

I would recommend Ubuntu, I like it a lot. If you want to try something differnt, stick to the Debian-based distros like Linux Mint or Pop!. Debian is just really easy to use. I know people love all this Arch stuff cause they think they are some leet haxors or something. If you've been using Linux for a while, sure. But if you want to learn it, stick with Debian-based.

Megalomaniak

cybereality A VM won't work, because it's not a real machine (no access to the GPU).

VFIO, there are some enterprisey VMs that can do HW virtualization and you can give them either a dedicated GPU or if you have a system with professional graphics(think radeon pro or quadro) then you might be able to use it for both host and the VM.

This option however is not for the faint of heart. I'd recommend getting fairly deeply familiar with linux itself before going down that rabbit hole.

duane

Gentoo, 'cause if you didn't compile it, it's not yours. 🙂

cybereality

duane Gentoo, 'cause if you didn't compile it, it's not yours. 🙂

Aye, but did you write the compiler...?

siska

Goodness. I hate shopping for hardware ... 🙂

siska

@Wolfe : thanks ! That's useful info as well.

cybereality

On Mac it will work on your own machine, but not if it is transmitted over the internet. So it is useless to share it, even on your website or Google Drive, and won't work if you upload to Itch or Steam (in fact, Steam requires signed builds).

Wolfe

cybereality On Mac it will work on your own machine, but not if it is transmitted over the internet. So it is useless to share it, even on your website or Google Drive, and won't work if you upload to Itch or Steam (in fact, Steam requires signed builds).

I don't know what changed. I had originally downloaded the game from Itch.io and tested it on my wife's Mac, which is used only for Scrivener. I know I did because I was just on there again to confirm, and my page was in Safari's history.

Now MacOS complains about the signature; not at the time when I first uploaded a MacOS export. You are correct. Oh well, not worth it. I'm not going anywhere near Apple, Google, or Microsoft as a developer. Steam is more than formidable enough to think about even with a Godot addon.

cybereality

Linux Mint is a little easier than Ubuntu (they are almost the same) but Ubuntu gets updates and software releases sooner. Mint is more "stable" since they wait, but this can sometimes mean you are running old versions of a lot of stuff. This can be a pro or a con.

In terms of the setup, I find Linux to be easier now. It is more complex, but it is simple. Like if you need to set some configuration, you may have to edit text files on the command line and it can be confusing. But once you do it, it works, and it will work for a long time, maybe for years (through several major OS updates) with no problems.

Not like Windows, where every Windows Update is a roll of the dice. My Bluetooth speaker stopped working on W11. I know I have all the latest drivers, it's just standard Bluetooth. There is no reason it should not work, but it does not work. It used to work fine. Weird stuff like that, and there is no way to fix it. And Windows forums are useless. They tell you the same junk they know doesn't work like "sfc scannow" and all this BS that has nothing to do with the problem. Or they tell you to reinstall Windows. No thanks.

DaveTheCoder

When I first upgraded from a dialup modem to DSL, I was using Windows. I needed to download and print the instructions in case I got stuck with no internet. The instructions were 20-30 pages of screenshots of menus and dialogs.

The equivalent instructions in Linux would be a page or two of text configuration file changes.

cybereality

Yeah, I know about VFIO but it's crazy to setup, as you say, not for the faint of heard. And I still think it would be a poor choice for testing, as it's so custom you can't confirm if any bugs you find are a result of the setup (or if there are bugs you are not seeing that would appear on the bare metal).

Megalomaniak

Yep, I'm just saying it's not a case of the "wont work" it's a case of the "not worth it".