Godot or Armory ?

MagicLord

Hi there,

I watched and tried Armory demos, it looks promising

Godot has more editor features but Armory advantage is direct Blender integration. You create and test your game level and characters directly in Blender and Armory is able to export the game. This is the best pipeline people would need, somewhat like Gamemaker having an integrated sprite and drawing tools.

I'm biased about trying Armory and making the whole game directly in Blender or using Godot and have to export level and objects to Godot each time i want to modify something.

Megalomaniak

I have been following Armory for years now and bought into it fairly early, when it cost a fifty on itch. Both have their pro's and cons. I'd say keep experimenting with both.

emo10001

I've had my eye on Armory for a while too. I just don't think its quite there yet. But with the new funding it got, I think it will get there soon. The thought of Armory being directly integrated with Blender is really appealing. However, there's certainly room for both it and Godot in the indie community.

-emo

MagicLord

@emo10001 said: I've had my eye on Armory for a while too. I just don't think its quite there yet. But with the new funding it got, I think it will get there soon. The thought of Armory being directly integrated with Blender is really appealing. However, there's certainly room for both it and Godot in the indie community.

-emo

Godot is not ready on some 3D features like full navigation components, stable better physics and Armory already allow to make the same 3D gameplay you would make with Godot limitations. Creating your level and objects and test the game directly on Blender the game is something that would speed a lot game creation. Godot can't rival with BLender modeling,sculpting and animation tools, but Godot could get a modeling tool like CryEngine

Some engine have skeletal creation and animation plugins, Godot could also got those for 3D games and it would become a 3D engine with modeling tools for static and animated objects. This way many games could be made almost entirely in Godot. I will follow Armory progress, it could be interesting even if there is less editor features.

Megalomaniak

@MagicLord said:

Godot is not ready on some 3D features like full navigation components, stable better physics and Armory already allow to make the same 3D gameplay you would make with Godot limitations.

Armory isn't bug free either. Both will likely take time to mature, but in some respects at least I'd say godot is ahead, mostly because it's been out longer.

TwistedTwigleg

@MagicLord said: Godot is not ready on some 3D features like full navigation components, stable better physics and Armory already allow to make the same 3D gameplay you would make with Godot limitations.

Well, I'd look at how many games have been made with Armory in comparison to how many games have been made with Godot. So far, I have not been able to find any games made with Armory, so in theory it is possible to make 3D games with Armory right now.

Not to say 3D games cannot be made with Armory, but so far I'd say Godot is the safer bet as far as game development goes. That said, I'd love to see a 3D game made with Armory!

Part of me wants to spend the time to dig in and really learn Armory, but then that would take time away from my other projects... And I'd have to refresh myself on how to code in Haxe, but man is it tempting! Having the entire workflow (minus texturing and audio production) in one place is very tempting indeed :smile:

Edit: And I love working with ArmoryPaint! (Which is made by the same guy, using Armory) It's made my texturing workflow so much faster than just baking textures in Blender!

MagicLord

@TwistedTwigleg said: Well, I'd look at how many games have been made with Armory in comparison to how many games have been made with Godot. So far, I have not been able to find any games made with Armory, so in theory it is possible to make 3D games with Armory right now.

Not to say 3D games cannot be made with Armory, but so far I'd say Godot is the safer bet as far as game development goes. That said, I'd love to see a 3D game made with Armory!

I want to say the same for Godot,how many good3D games ? I don't see anything beyond small arcade games. Perhaps we must stay safe and look at how many great 3D games have been made in [name your engine] ?

Godot is not ready for ambitious 3D games and Armory is on the same position, they will need time to get lot more 3D features.

I encountered issues and limitations in Godot 3D, while Godot has more editor features, Armory is capable of making the same 3D arcade games we see in Godot, and much more.

It has good potential

Some things are better than Godot

Game creation in Armory is the winner with Blender integration, all 3D game is made without leaving Blender.

Blender 2.8 could get Armoryintegration, this means Armory will get Blender shader editor, vertex and textures paint and a full modeler and animation. You could play your game and decide to tweak your character animations, modify the level and play test , all in Blender.

I'm more hyped for Amory 1.0 than Godot 3.0.3.

TwistedTwigleg

@MagicLord said: I want to say the same for Godot,how many good3D games ? I don't see anything beyond small arcade games. Perhaps we must stay safe and look at how many great 3D games have been made in [name your engine] ?

That is fair, and I agree we could do the same comparison for any game engine. I was not intending to offend in any way.

I would agree that there is not much beyond relatively small games in Godot. I'm sure this will change, as Godot 3 has really strengthened what is possible in Godot, especially on the 3D side of things. There are lots of really cool looking 3D games using Godot 3 coming out. I'm especially looking forward to RivenTails :smile:

No doubt as more people use Armory, I'm sure there will be more games made with Armory. I have nothing against Armory, in fact I'd love to give Armory a try and probably will in the future. I did not know about the community made game, which looks pretty cool. Up to this point, I had only seen the development videos and pictures from Lubos :)

It has good potential

This looks really cool! I remember seeing a similar image from Lubos's twitter and I was really impressed!

MagicLord

@TwistedTwigleg said:

@MagicLord said: I want to say the same for Godot,how many good3D games ? I don't see anything beyond small arcade games. Perhaps we must stay safe and look at how many great 3D games have been made in [name your engine] ?

That is fair, and I agree we could do the same comparison for any game engine. I was not intending to offend in any way.

I would agree that there is not much beyond relatively small games in Godot. I'm sure this will change, as Godot 3 has really strengthened what is possible in Godot, especially on the 3D side of things. There are lots of really cool looking 3D games using Godot 3 coming out. I'm especially looking forward to RivenTails :smile:

No doubt as more people use Armory, I'm sure there will be more games made with Armory. I have nothing against Armory, in fact I'd love to give Armory a try and probably will in the future. I did not know about the community made game, which looks pretty cool. Up to this point, I had only seen the development videos and pictures from Lubos :)

It has good potential

This looks really cool! I remember seeing a similar image from Lubos's twitter and I was really impressed!

There is deferred or forward rendering, FXAA, SMAA,TAA, SSAO,RTAO, RTGI,sky radiance, Voxel GI and Voxel AO, Soft Shadows, all tweakable. For example AO is lot more faster than Godot and Voxel GI can also be tweaked to stay fast.

Reflections look good and are less taxing than Godot SSR, and there is many ray traced options. armory3d.org/manual/#/./graphics/global_illumination

I am more impressed by Armory performance and graphic options than Godot 3.

Godot will grow and Armory also will grow, the choice will be how you want to work, it's too awesome to modify your level or objects and animations and test right away.

It's too fun to have all Blender tools and test game modifications right away.

Making a low poly game in that style with Armory would mean there would be absolute no assets export and import; all done in Blender. This is what i will try in Armory before choosing to stick with it.

Armory for sure will get very popular among indie Blender users.

BinaryOrange

Armory does indeed look and sound very intriguing and promising. I have to agree with you 100% on Godot's somewhat lackluster 3D features, though compared to Godot 2 it's a huge step in the right direction, they just need more time to add all the bits and bobs in with future updates.

I typically use Godot for small 2D projects (not that I've published anything, but have definitely played around making small "test" games), and Unity for 3D. If I had more experience with Blender I'd probably give Armory a try, but right now it's hard to justify me trying to learn yet another engine. Cool find nonetheless, definitely going to keep my eyes open about it. It's always nice to have competition, it encourages growth!

Ace_Dragon

Armory has the BGE-like workflow and excellent graphics. Godot has the built-in script editing, an extremely powerful way to make reusable content (and editable at that), and many developers submitting patches.

There's good things about both engines the way I see it, though Godot in the future should see an ever tighter bridge between it and Blender.

frankiezafe

Do not forget what Godot propose out of the box, compared to Armory3d: a cross-platform standalone editor (not a tiny feature!), easily tweakable, really good features for 2d games, developer friendly, with a module system that just works, gdscript (better than python in my pov) and gdnative. Therefore, it is more mature than Armory, and it's normal. Blender is actively working on integration with all game engines (see https://lists.blender.org/pipermail/bf-committers/2018-May/049438.html), so there is no risk for godot to be left aside.

MagicLord

@BinaryOrange said: Armory does indeed look and sound very intriguing and promising. I have to agree with you 100% on Godot's somewhat lackluster 3D features, though compared to Godot 2 it's a huge step in the right direction, they just need more time to add all the bits and bobs in with future updates.

I typically use Godot for small 2D projects (not that I've published anything, but have definitely played around making small "test" games), and Unity for 3D. If I had more experience with Blender I'd probably give Armory a try, but right now it's hard to justify me trying to learn yet another engine. Cool find nonetheless, definitely going to keep my eyes open about it. It's always nice to have competition, it encourages growth!

Blender 2.8 will adress people that find it's UI difficult, Armory with Blender 2.8 will be a great 3D engine.

@frankiezafe said: Do not forget what Godot propose out of the box, compared to Armory3d: a cross-platform standalone editor (not a tiny feature!), easily tweakable, really good features for 2d games, developer friendly, with a module system that just works, gdscript (better than python in my pov) and gdnative. Therefore, it is more mature than Armory, and it's normal. Blender is actively working on integration with all game engines (see https://lists.blender.org/pipermail/bf-committers/2018-May/049438.html), so there is no risk for godot to be left aside.

I'm looking for 3D, for 2D indeed Godot is awesome and it's what i would use. Armory is not difficult, it's also friendly with visual scripting , Amory can compile code that is faster than Godot GDscript.

Godot is not so mature on 3D when you make something bigger than some arcade game,it has un polished areas like no navmesh agent and components, 3D tiles are not able to use GI, there is no blending between GI volumes, packed scenes not able to store other packed sub scenes and scripts, no additive scene loading and unloading, or many physics bugs made me let down the game projects. Godot is doing good in some areas, but i find armory is doing better in fundations and performance while i like a lot it's graphics and performance, Armory do the same pbr rendering as other engines and like Godot propose real time GI feature.

Many people will take Armory instead of Godot for Blender integration, you make,modify and play your game in Blender. This is the next generation workflow to make games for any one and this reminds me Dreams game.

What could bother me with Armory is not about graphics or features but the user base and slow progress. Unlike Godot, there is very low activity and the user base is too small, it's hard to get support and more tutorials this way. This could compromise Armory if it doesn't get more activity and popularity, this could be sad considering it has the top workflow to make games.

Ace_Dragon

Godot is not so mature on 3D when you make something bigger than some arcade game,it has un polished areas like no navmesh agent and components, 3D tiles are not able to use GI, there is no blending between GI volumes, packed scenes not able to store other packed sub scenes and scripts, no additive scene loading and unloading, or many physics bugs made me let down the game projects. Godot is doing good in some areas, but i find armory is doing better in fundations and performance while i like a lot it's graphics and performance, Armory do the same pbr rendering as other engines and like Godot propose real time GI feature.

To be fair, no one has really pushed Armory with fully-packaged yet very complex games yet (such as many levels and menus, most of the demos are well within reach using Godot). Also, the Godot engine has only recently seen a major push in 3D, so we should see more contributors in the area as more 3D games begin to get made.

Also, early indications on BA suggests that while Armory is in good shape already, they too will have to have a good regimen of bugfixing to make it enjoyable to use (this could be more complex compared to Godot due to its heavy dependence on external libraries).

As for the list you made, it is true that Godot needs further improvements in navigation and physics as well as a need to fix issues in graphics. However, I don't get what the benefit of additive scene loading would be when you can just instance any scene you wish (it could be due to Unity having the explicit separation between asset files and scenes like many engines).

MagicLord

@Ace Dragon said:

Godot is not so mature on 3D when you make something bigger than some arcade game,it has un polished areas like no navmesh agent and components, 3D tiles are not able to use GI, there is no blending between GI volumes, packed scenes not able to store other packed sub scenes and scripts, no additive scene loading and unloading, or many physics bugs made me let down the game projects. Godot is doing good in some areas, but i find armory is doing better in fundations and performance while i like a lot it's graphics and performance, Armory do the same pbr rendering as other engines and like Godot propose real time GI feature.

To be fair, no one has really pushed Armory with fully-packaged yet very complex games yet (such as many levels and menus, most of the demos are well within reach using Godot). Also, the Godot engine has only recently seen a major push in 3D, so we should see more contributors in the area as more 3D games begin to get made.

Also, early indications on BA suggests that while Armory is in good shape already, they too will have to have a good regimen of bugfixing to make it enjoyable to use (this could be more complex compared to Godot due to its heavy dependence on external libraries).

As for the list you made, it is true that Godot needs further improvements in navigation and physics as well as a need to fix issues in graphics. However, I don't get what the benefit of additive scene loading would be when you can just instance any scene you wish (it could be due to Unity having the explicit separation between asset files and scenes like many engines).

Armory dependencies are not a problem, while Godot also uses external Bullet library. Armory is more capable, for example navigation is lot better and works with characters and animations, there is physics ragdoll, cloth,soft bodies, destruction support or 3D UI already. Armory third person level combined with ocean and some low voxel gi runs better than Godot.

I was very enthousiast about Armory but more i use it , more i discover some aspects need work, and scripting tutorials are missing, there is lot of examples, but tutorials are lot better for learning. I keep trying and and perhaps some game will come out.

I stay with Unreal 4 because it is prooven and used by biggest gaming companies to individual indies, there is no surprises when i start a game, i know i can make it without getting stuck on bugs or a missing tool. For example i would be unable to make 3D cinematics, dialog, open world, animations physics and IK in Godot.

Godot and Armory are 3D engine to keep an eye on, they have lot of potential and open source has it's advantages ;)

MagicLord

Armory script is also very simple, for example this is a 3D volume trigger

class Trigger extends iron.Trait {

var rb:RigidBody;
var physics:armory.trait.physics.PhysicsWorld;
var obj:Object;

public function new() {
	super();

	notifyOnInit(function() {
		rb = object.getTrait(RigidBody);
		physics = armory.trait.physics.PhysicsWorld.active;
		obj = Scene.active.getChild("Icosphere");
	});

	notifyOnUpdate(function() {
		// TODO: replace with notifyOnCollisionEnter or notifyOnTriggerEnter once implemented
		// ref: https://github.com/armory3d/armory/issues/331
		var rbs = physics.getContacts(object.getTrait(RigidBody));
		if (rbs != null) {
			for (rb in rbs){
				if(rb.object.name == "Cube"){
					obj.visible = true;
				}
			}
		} else {
			obj.visible = false;
		}
	});
}

}

MagicLord

While IK object to a bone is a nightmare :D

` function updateBones() { // Fetch bone var bone1 = anim.getBone("mixamorig:LeftForeArm"); var bone2 = anim.getBone("mixamorig:RightForeArm");

	// Fetch bone matrix - this is in local bone space for now
	var m1 = anim.getBoneMat(bone1);
	var m2 = anim.getBoneMat(bone2);
	var m1b = anim.getBoneMatBlend(bone1);
	var m2b = anim.getBoneMatBlend(bone2);
	var a1 = anim.getAbsMat(bone1.parent);
	var a2 = anim.getAbsMat(bone2.parent);

	// Rotate hand bones to aim with gun
	// Some raw math follows..
	var tx = m1._30;
	var ty = m1._31;
	var tz = m1._32;
	m1._30 = 0;
	m1._31 = 0;
	m1._32 = 0;
	mat.getInverse(a1);
	q.fromAxisAngle(mat.right(), angle);
	m1.applyQuat(q);
	m1._30 = tx;
	m1._31 = ty;
	m1._32 = tz;
	
	var tx = m2._30;
	var ty = m2._31;
	var tz = m2._32;
	m2._30 = 0;
	m2._31 = 0;
	m2._32 = 0;
	mat.getInverse(a2);
	var v = mat.right();
	v.mult(-1);
	// Todo: We do not do inverse kinematics just yet, right hand moves unnaturally
	// Point the hand down to the ground for now
	// q.fromAxisAngle(v, -angle);
	q.fromAxisAngle(v, -1.6);
	m2.applyQuat(q);
	m2._30 = tx;
	m2._31 = ty;
	m2._32 = tz;

	// Animation blending is in progress, we need to rotate those bones too
	if (m1b != null && m2b != null) {
		var tx = m1b._30;
		var ty = m1b._31;
		var tz = m1b._32;
		m1b._30 = 0;
		m1b._31 = 0;
		m1b._32 = 0;
		mat.getInverse(a1);
		q.fromAxisAngle(mat.right(), angle);
		m1b.applyQuat(q);
		m1b._30 = tx;
		m1b._31 = ty;
		m1b._32 = tz;
		
		var tx = m2b._30;
		var ty = m2b._31;
		var tz = m2b._32;
		m2b._30 = 0;
		m2b._31 = 0;
		m2b._32 = 0;
		mat.getInverse(a2);
		var v = mat.right();
		v.mult(-1);
		// q.fromAxisAngle(v, -angle);
		q.fromAxisAngle(v, -1.6);
		m2b.applyQuat(q);
		m2b._30 = tx;
		m2b._31 = ty;
		m2b._32 = tz;
	}
}

MagicLord

Armory has it'w own bugs, like Godot it will need lot of bug fixing and work unfortunately.

MagicLord

Unlike Armory 3D, Godot has more than one active developer, this is something perhaps lot more important than a full Blender integration.

I'm stopping using Armory, it has great rendering but i'll try it again when critical issues will be fixed like car physics wheels, game stuck or some few ones :/

Ace_Dragon

Considering how much of the development was done by a single person so far and how Armory has only now become Open Source, I'm not surprised you see bugs when the engine starts to get pushed a bit.

That could always change though, Godot wasn't that great when it was first open-sourced and had no documentation at all, but it has improved a lot with countless volunteer development and leadership from Reduz (even though work still needs to be done).

That leaves me to note that it's not like Unity and Unreal are known for being fairly bug-free either (many have reported major bugs and regressions in basic engine components and how it's often a game of trying to find the most stable versions to work with). Game engines in general seem to have a lot of bugs, but in my experience, Godot seems to not be near as affected when it comes to basic gameplay and game creation concepts (despite some of the issues in more advanced graphical features).